The Board of Trustees reviewed the initial schematic plan and have asked for another option(s) from which to choose. They will then make a decision at their February board meeting. Both the Board of Trustees and many individuals like the green space and they may consider another site for the administration building. Please continue to send feedback to the blog regarding the building, site, and other thoughts.
Sincerely,
David Hoag
23 Comments
I, too, like the green space! My prayers are with the Board of Trustees, that they continue to be Trustee-able. I expect that they will.
Is anyone considering the cost of “changing our minds” once again? The committe spent a great deal of time and money with Interdesign doing EXACTLY what the Board asked them to do in regard to maintaining the architectural integrity of the old Hogue Hall. The cost of a new building is huge and the price goes up with each of these changes.
I like the open space too. I wonder if Beaumont Avenue might not be a good alternative location for the administration building. I would not like to see Bass Mollet torn down. However, isnt there some space behind the Gym? Most of the administration buildings are now on that end of the campus.
I do believe that all folks concerned are trying to make the best decision possible regarding Hogue Hall. But I am disappointed about the direction you’re going, for several reasons.
1. Greenville College does not seem to have much of a sense of the town’s valuing of its old buildings. There are some buildings that don’t have much history or architectural value–and I don’t care about the loss of those. And I do agree that Hogue Hall needed to be torn down. But what about Bass Mollett? What about some of the other old buildings that the College has owned? The College simply allowed that fine old building, Bass Mollett, to go to wrack and ruin. And you’ll tear it down some day, because your argument will be that it’s too expensive to save. But it wouldn’t have been too expensive to save if you had taken care of it from the very beginning. When somebody gives you a gift, it is a good thing to take care of it. The same is true of Hogue Hall. I was saying 15 years ago that the building needed to have major renovation and repair, but no one was listening to me. At least 3 years ago, I told the President that there was a 2-3 inch gap between the floor of the closet in my office and the wall. I could see into some other room on the floor below! But, as I say, no one was paying attention to me.
Please. Please pay attention to people in town who may want Hogue Hall rebuilt in EXACTLY the place where it originally was and looking pretty much as it originally did.
2. I’m disappointed because you specifically SAID (promised?) that you would build a new building that would replicate the “iconic” look of the old Hogue Hall. Please keep your word, to townsfolk and to alums like myself.
Certainly, I want Hogue Hall to be longer, deeper, better than the original. But Hogue Hall was a simple, stately old building. It was beautiful in a classical, simplistic way.
What was that Italianate thing that you had in the paper? That wasn’t Hogue Hall. And there’s nothing else on campus that looks Italianate, anyway. I mean, how difficult can it be to reproduce the look of the old Hogue Hall?
3. I’m disappointed because Greenville College does not need that whole Hogue Hall area as “green space.” If you want “green space,” turn Scott Field into a beautifully landscaped green space, and create an athletic field somewhere else. Put Hogue Hall at the center of campus, where it should be. I would think that GC doesn’t have that much space to begin with, not enough to “waste” it with a huge open field. I’m a farm girl; I love grass and meadows and fields. But HH needs to be in the middle of campus.
Finally, you will be asking me for money at some point. I don’t have a lot, but I do have some. But I won’t give any money to anything that I think betrays what you led people to believe that you would do.
Please, rethink your plans.
I agree with those who would like to see Hogue Hall rebuilt in substantially the same location. I also would like to see it designed to look as similar as possible to the original building. Many of us have significant memories that are associated with Hogue Hall; it is part of our sense of connection to GC. PLEASE DON’T CHANGE YOUR MIND AND LET US DOWN BY USING A DIFFERENT LOCATION OR SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT DESIGN!
When I first heard that there was a possiblity that there was talk of not placing the new admin bulding where hogue was located I was strongly opposed….BUT over thanksgiving I had the opporutnity to walk around campus with my kids and the expanded lawn is a great addition to campus. I would strongly support looking at a new location for an admin building (adjacent to the whilock center?)and doing someting to enhance LaDue auditorium’s role as one of the most historic buildings on campus. Could Marston/Ladue be renovated to be a historic/iconic relplacemnet to hogue?
As President Ronald Reagan once said “….there you go again….” To promise alumni and the townsfolk of Greenville that you would recreate the feeling of old Hogue Hall on the original site, then change your mind out from under us, you would be no more better than a politician that says one thing to get votes and support, then does something totally different to please someone else! Have the powers that be at Greenville College pledged falsely to us on one thing then gone to something else? It certainly seems like it!
KEEP WHAT YOU HAVE PROMISED, AND ADMIT THAT YOU WERE WRONG TO EVEN CONSIDER SOMETHING ELSE!
PS: Donna Hart was correct! Perhaps if GC listened to her 15 years ago, Hogue Hall would still be here!
Hogue Hall has been the symbol of Greenville College for years. I was heartbroken to hear it was being demolished, but relieved to see and hear about the plans to replace it with a building with much the same look in the same location. Hogue Hall’s central location gave the administration the opportunity to be in the center of things. It gave students the feeling that the administration was a part of our family. This is an important fact to consider. The more students feel connected to the staff and administration of the college, the more likely they are to stay at the college, and stay connected after they leave. It’s time to demonstrate the integrity that we all know is vital to Greenville College’s success. Greenville College needs to do the right thing, keep the promises that have been made. The alumni of GC, as well as the Greenville community, need to see that those in charge of Greenville College are trustworthy, people who follow through and keep the commitments they have made.
I am one of those many alumni and friends of Greenville College who was initially saddened and discouraged by the announcement that Hogue Hall needed to come down. Like a lot of you, I married a GC alum. Although we lived in Georgia at the time, we had our ceremony in the old Free Methodist Church and our reception on Hogue Hall lawn because we wanted to get married in a special location – our alma mater, the place where we met. For these and other reasons, including Ivy Cutting, Hogue Hall was a special building to me. However, upon learning more about the state of Hogue Hall, I grew to become increasingly comfortable with the notion of “moving on.” I, like others who have written here, did not look forward to the first time I would see Hogue Hall gone. Much to my surprise, though, I was quite impressed with how good it looked to have that new open space. I first saw that space when the temporary fence was up and the lights had not yet been installed. Now that the grass has grown in and lights and benches have been installed, the thought of Hogue Hall being gone is no longer as difficult as I previously envisioned.
I am quite pleased with the idea that the new building may not be built where the original stood. I am a traditionalist, most of the time, but I also like to see progression. This being the case, I would like to propose that Hogue Hall II, or whatever it will be called, be built in a new location and that a memorial tower be erected where Hogue Hall stood.
I’ve looked into this quite a bit and have found many examples of where towers (bell, clock, or otherwise) are located on college and university campuses. In our own network of Free Methodist affiliated institutions, Azusa Pacific University, Seattle Pacific University and Spring Arbor University have bell/clock towers, all of which are beautiful. In addition, other schools with towers predominantly located on campus are Belmont University, Brigham Young University, Furman University, Taylor University, the University of Alabama, and Western Kentucky University. I would like to see a tower erected that would be a near replica of the tower of the old Hogue Hall. I believe it could be located near Claussen Plaza, but further south near where the building originally stood. With this scenario, I suggest naming the tower Hogue Tower. If the look was significantly similar to Hogue Hall then that structure could remain as the college’s identifying piece. The tower could also serve as a location for special events, including Ivy Cutting. Also, this could open up the naming of the new administrative building for major donors. In addition, this would take pressure off of the college to have the new building look like the old one because this would have already been done with the tower.
An example of a memorial tower “replacing” a building of heritage and honor can be found at Howard Payne University in Brownwood, Texas. Their Old Main was destroyed by fire and they have since constructed a memorial tower in its place. From their website: “Howard Payne University’s Old Main Tower incorporates stone from Old Main, the original building on the HPU campus that was constructed in 1890 and destroyed by fire in 1984. Old Main Tower Plaza features engraved granite commemorative bricks bearing the names of graduates, ex-students and friends of Howard Payne University. Old main has held great significance for alumni throughout HPU’s history. Old Main Tower Plaza serves as a reminder of our rich heritage and helps current students gain a richer appreciation of that heritage. Now is your chance to become a part of HPU history – add your name (or the name of someone you’d like to honor) to this special group and leave a memento on the HPU campus.”
Imagine this:
“Greenville College’s Hogue Tower incorporates bricks from the original Hogue Hall. Hogue-Claussen Plaza features engraved granite commemorative bricks bearing the names of graduates, ex-students and friends of Greenville College. Hogue Hall has held great significance for alumni throughout GC’s history. Hogue Tower and Hogue-Claussen Plaza serve as reminders of our rich heritage and helps current students gain a richer appreciation of that heritage. Now is your chance to become a part of Greenville’s history – add your name (or the name of someone you’d like to honor) to this special group and leave a memento on the Greenville College campus.”
For pictures of Howard Payne’s Old Main Tower Plaza, visit http://www.hputx.edu/s/668/howardpayne.aspx?sid=668&gid=1&pgid=1657 or http://hcap.artstor.org/cgi-bin/library?a=d&d=p837.
As for where the new building should go, I’m not sure how many options the college has. My initial thought is that it should be built next to the old Free Methodist Church facing north. This would symbolically place the building facing campus which would reciprocally have campus face the front of the building rather than the back. Also, having the college’s new administrative building next to what was constructed as a Free Methodist church would serve as a symbolic reminder of the college’s heritage and identity.
I agree with you don..Please get ahold of me ..
Thanks
Greenville College is many things. A Christian college, educating students for character in the liberating arts and sciences. It is not, as President Mannoia used to joke, a left wing painting school. It is nothing however, without its alumni — Greenville’s most valuable asset. I served on the alumni booard for 10 years and know this to be a fact. I do not wish for alumni to feel misled and insulted if a great majority of them, like I, feel like they were strongly advised that the new Hogue Hall would be built on the same site and look as similar as possible, on the outside, as the original. Big open spaces are great. Dartmouth has a beautiful, large quad. Unfortunately, we are not as large, wealthy, or as far east as they are. Scott field was a perfect size quad for our campus. We really cannot afford to leave the space open, even if Al Gore would be pleased. My own parish presented one plan to the congregation for expansion and then ended up changing it after the fact. This did not set well with a lot of people. Please think long and hard before any change is made to what was originally understood by most. We have enough change going on right now. The capital campaign may be left with just change in its coffers if alumni and townspeople are not pleased and feel misled.
As an Alumnus of Greenville College (’88) it is a huge disappointment to see such a historical symbol such as Hogue Hall no longer be present at the campus.
As much as it will be missed, it truly is unfortunate that over the years, mother nature, lack of funds to adequately maintain, and neglecting the obvious signs that structurally, it was failing, may have prevented her ultimate demise.
However, I am in support of rebuilding something new in her place that will ultimately be more efficient from a space utilization standpoint. Fact is, Hogue Hall was very inefficient based on the layout and size of the buildings footprint.
I think the Board recognizes this fact, and I believe with the new building will come greater efficiency, more appropriate utlization of space available, cost efficient, and modern for many years affording GC opportunities that it would not have had, had it been decided to rebuild.
I urge those of you who read this blog to take that into consideration as well. No one wanted to see Hogue Hall disappear, but the fact is, the building was unsafe through years of wear and neglect.
From an archetectural perspective, whatever is decided to be built in her place, the facade can be designed to reflect the period in which the original appeared, and I certainly support that be made a priority.
As nice as the green space may look now, it is not realistic to think the College will be able to afford to maintain it long term. GC is so landlocked, that eventually something will need to be built in the old HH location. We should do the right thing and do the rebuild on the original site.
There is so much tradition in Hogue Hall. Many memories and the historic building where Greenville College started it’s ministry. Please put Hogue Hall back in the same location.
When I think of GC, I don’t think of the library or the dorms or the DC or the FM church; other than the friends I made there, I think of Hogue Hall. It’s as representative of the college as the Sears Tower is for Chicago or the Empire State is for NYC, and I don’t think that’s being hyperbolic. Nothing wrong with planning for the future but should it be at the expense of memories and symbols?
I think Hogue Hall should be put in the front of the campus (either where it was or possibly a bit forward, if you want more of a quadrangle feel behind it). I also think the side of Hogue Hall that faces the street should look a lot more like the old Hogue Hall than the current architect’s design does. It would not take a lot of work to put the tower back in place as a bell tower and the roofline as a mansard roof like on the historic Hogue (instead of clock tower with a ridiculous looking little peaked roof and the rest of the roofline making the building look more like it belongs in a Swiss Alps village than on a college campus).
If the tower were to resemble the old Hogue Hall, the college could even keep its logo (which is a picture of the old Hogue Hall Tower!) and not spend another hundred thousand dollars coming up with a new logo (I remember how much it cost to come up with the one it is currently using!)
I believe the bell tower is a dominant feature of the memory of the college; Tower Press, Tower Products, all keeping the college alive when it could have disappeared during the depression. I remember David Hoag telling me that if the old building came down, they could build a close facsimile of it on the outside; I’m not even asking for the whole building to be an exact replica of the old one, but just that the south (street-facing) facade look more like the old Hogue Hall than the current architect’s scheme of it. The north side of the building can stay the same, and the interior can be whatever they want. But, I want something that looks like the old Hogue when I pass by the campus on College Ave.
Right now, the “hole” where the historic building once stood makes me sad and makes me think of what could have been had the college gone along with the Illinois Historic Preservation Agency’s recommendation to save the historic facade (and at a cost that would be no more than that of building a whole new building.) There was too much of a hurry to tear the old building down, and I hope we don’t rush into building something that will be regrettable and forgettable (and tacky) architecturally when we could put something special and meaningful back in place.
I also want to add this, for those who think a new administrative building could be placed next to the Whitlock Music Center (old FM Church). If it is put there, there will be a greater push to put the new “chapel” auditorium on the block between First and Prairie Streets, where there are several more historic homes of huge significance to Greenville, namely the Allen-Keith House (now known as Archer Hall) and even more significant, the Northcott House (on the corner of College and Prairie).
The Northcott house is a much older house than the ones surrounding it, and was the home of the only high state official from Greenville (Northcott was a Lieutenant Governor sometime in the 1890’s). The inside of the Northcott House is pretty much in its historic state downstairs, with a parquet oak floor in the dining room and rare pressed buffalo leather wainscotting in the front hall and stairway. Right now, this building is in private hands, and the owner DOES NOT want to sell it to the college (there is also a historic carriage house, the last left in Greenville, on the property).
But, the college has designs on this historic property and the privately owned law office in another historic home next to it. The college has plans to tear these houses down (along with Kaufmann Building and Archer Hall) to build its chapel there (why? So students won’t have to cross College Ave? Honestly? They cross it already to get to the Music Center!)
The owner doesn’t want to sell to the college, but she can’t wait forever to sell it. The college is very good at waiting people out, then tearing down their historic houses. This has got to stop, or Greenville won’t have any historic homes left! Bass-Mollett (aka Hoiles Mansion) is a case in point; the college could have cared for it, and it would have made a better Alumni House than the one they have now. The Music House (John Bradford House) is already gone, along with the beautiful houses that used to stand on north Spruce Street. Dr. Luzader’s house (she was a pioneering woman doctor, and a very early Greenville grad) is gone now too. How long will Dr. McAllister’s cute little Mission style bungalow last? Or the Hoiles’ arts and crafts “English cottage” style home on Beaumont?
I am currently the vice president of the Bond County Historical Society. When I was a student, one of the things I loved about Greenville College was its wealth of historic houses! Little by little, they are all disappearing, to be replaced by decidedly ugly or undistinguished boxy industrial looking buildings. We need to save what little we have left (Bass-Mollett, Hoiles House, McAllister, the Burkhart Center, and Archer Hall). We don’t need to move Hogue Hall to the place where the chapel SHOULD be located so that other historic homes will be needlessly torn down.
I agree wholeheartedly with Professor Hart. We should stick to the original plan and build a replica (at least of the facade) of Hogue Hall in the original position.
I have also been surprised at the very quick (and seemingly casual) way that Greenville has brushed aside some of the traditions that were supposedly so meaningful and important. As much as I made fun of the traditions as a student, I was moved by the symbolism of walking through Hogue Hall to the ivy-cutting (despite the lack of accessibility of the building…but that is another topic). I respected Greenville’s obvious acknowledgment and celebration of the past and I was grateful that they seemed to have a very good grasp on balancing their past and their future.
But lately I have I’m disappointed with the lack of care that Greenville has shown to its buildings over the years. The old buildings make up much of the charm of the campus and really influence the experience that students have there. As an alumna who spent four years on the staff of The Papyrus I can say that we were absolutely influenced by being located in Archer Hall. There was a feeling of continuing a legacy and knowing that we were following in the footsteps of students before us who were committed to similar goals and ideas. I felt lucky to be able to be a part of that. But the more new buildings Greenville builds, the more Greenville looks and feels like every other small Christian liberal arts college. I know that Greenville desperately needs more lodging and more accessible lodging, but I am still surprised that more creative thought is not being put into the ways Greenville uses the space it has. Tearing buildings down cannot be the only answer. I thought Greenville was supposed to be different?
Substantially moving or altering the facade of Hogue when it is rebuilt would be a
collossal mistake. Hogue has done a difficult thing: it has become an icon for our
college. You can’t BUILD icons, you have to just be wise enough to know one when
you see one. Substantially changing either the appearance or cental location of the
old Hogue would be a profoundly UNwise thing to do.
I also would like to say that Donna Hart deserves some kudos for hitting on two
important points: 1) Greenville has a demonstrated history of not taking care of the
assets it has, and 2) they are continually asking for new investment (money from
alums). Regular (heck, even irregular) building inspections and a little
preventative maintenance would have probably kept Hogue Hall standing. I asked at
the last Alumni meetup I attended if there were any plans to put a building inspection and maintenance policy in place so that this doesn’t happen again, but nobody knew anything. That doesn’t give me the impression that the college is learning from its mistakes. I don’t think alumni should be expected to fund new projects if existing ones aren’t taken care of properly.
David,
1) I concur largely with Donna Hart, Matt Good, and Kate Netzler. During my tenure as student, current resources tended to be managed in a meager way at best – mismaintenance of Hogue, poor planning in the construction of the basement level of Whitlock with particular emphasis on the recording studios, and numerous other complaints I’ve heard from time to time from colleagues and faculty who simply think that some resources are highly adequate but simply mismanaged. I simply DON’T have money because I’m in grad school, but I’d be hesitant to donate any to redevelopment unless I knew there were specific strategies and plans set in place to make sure the money is used wisely and costly mistakes are avoided again. Even in this post you do not offer very specific details about where you would potentially move Hogue to – this does not testify well to the level you value the alumni and friends you seek help from.
2) Despite your lack of detailed information, it behooves me to mention that one of the alternatives that I heard about from word of mouth while perchance visiting the campus was that Hogue be moved a matter of only a few feet south on the lawn in order to make more room for the building to be larger, more handicap accessible, and to include student space on the interiors. With this particular plan I concur. A matter of perhaps 20-50 feet would allow for all those things and not drastically move the iconic center of the campus.
David, please be more open with us. I know you’re trying hard to keep a firm balance of what information is disbursed, but we the alumni need more to trust you.
All best.
It is my understanding that the Board of Trustees did not include the Hogue Hall project on the agenda during their recent meetings, as we had understood would be the case. It looks like it will perhaps be considered at their next meetings, which I believe happen in May.
Would it be possible for a post to be made to let us know when the next meetings are and if the Hogue Hall project will be on the agenda?
Thanks. We continue to pray for God’s blessing and guidance to be on GC.
Gary
We agree with Donna Hart, Matt Good, Kate Netzler and Paul Reese.
As parents we searched for a college whose values reflected what we endeavoured to teach our children. While visiting campuses, Greenville immediately imparted a sense of treasured history and a valuing of Wesleyan principles. The physical presentation of the campus with its mix of historic and new buildings imparted a sense of balance; forward thinking while upholding foundations. We sacrificed much while entrusting our daughter to Greenville.
It may seem a small matter to relocate Hogue Hall or rebuild in a different style, but the primary issue is trust. You need to honour your commitment not just to recent alumni and the people of Greenville, but to the core values of our faith and all those who have developed/attended/supported the institution over its history.
Be true to your word, full of integrity and let the campus reflect those values.
As I wrote this and then re-read what I wrote I was struck with God telling us not to make graven images. Hogue Hall was a building. What it represented was not a building but Greenville College.
My question is what is Greenville College and what it means to its Alumunae, students, faculty and the community it resides in? Maybe we need to think long and hard about where our values are? What do you want to say to your community and the world at large?
Greenville is an older college and it building are getting older. Maybe the first step that needs to be taken it to look at the building that are currently on campus and see what they need before it too late to save them.
Greenville gets its resources from the generous donations of it alumunae, faculty and friends of the college and you need to be good stewards of what you have been given. Letting buildings fall into disrepair is not being good stewards of the resources you have been given.
Greenville is college first and foremost. It is there to educate young men and women in how to be live their lives as Christians in a world that getting more hostile to Christians everyday. What does the faculty need to train these young men and women? Obviously you are managing without an administration building so do you really need it? Could you use that same money and build a computer science curriculum so could attract more students who want to study computer science or science period. We need Christians in these careers influencing their peers. Whether we admit it or not this is the future and Greenville has not kept up. What are the real needs of the college? Do we need to look at faculty salaries so we can attract teachers who can’t afford to work at our faculty’s salaries?
I am from a family with a long family history at Greenville College. My grandparents met there and graduated from Greenville. My parents and most of my aunts and uncles and many first cousins graduated f rom Greenville. I have visited this campus many times over a 50 year period. I think Hogue Hall has served is purpose but we need to on. It is a building it is not Greenville College.
There are more important issues here than a building. What is the future of Greenville College? What role is it going to continue to play in the Christian community. My prayer is that you consider what is really important to Greenville’s future.
Donna Nall